Mixed martial arts is an individual sport, but many of the best fighters train together, and the bonds that form among training partners are increasingly becoming a headache for UFC President Dana White. White says that he'll force top fighters to fight each other, even if that means two training partners in the Octagon. But many fighters say they'll refuse to fight friends, and the coach at one of the best MMA gyms, Greg Jackson, says he'll have nothing to do with two of his fighters taking each other on.
"I certainly won't be a part of one of my guys fighting another one of my guys," Jackson told New Mexico Combat Sports. "But the UFC is Dana's organization so he can do whatever he wants. ... That'll be between the fighters -- for myself I just stay out of it. It's their organization and we work for them, so it would be a matter of what the fighters decide. I really think when push comes to shove the fighters won't give in on that. I hope so."
In theory, I agree with White: MMA is a sport, and sports are all about the best athletes competing with each other. In tennis, Venus and Serena Williams relish the opportunity to meet in tournament finals. In theory, MMA fighters should be the same way.
But in practice, I fail to see how White can force fighters to fight each other if they simply refuse. Yes, he can give them strong financial incentives to fight each other, and if they refuse he can tell them they won't get to fight anyone else, but ultimately, how can he really make two fighters fight if they insist they won't do it?I worry about where this all could lead. Just look, for example, at the light heavyweight division of the UFC. Jackson already coached two of the UFC's Top 10 light heavyweights, Rashad Evans and Keith Jardine, and he recently added the UFC's top up-and-coming light heavyweight prospect, Jon Jones. Meanwhile, light heavyweight champion Lyoto Machida and middleweight champion Anderson Silva (who is probably the second-best light heavyweight in the UFC) are also friends and training partners and say they'd never fight each other either. And the UFC's light heavyweight division just added another friend and training partner of Machida's and Silva's, Antonio Rogerio Nogueira.
With those six fighters in two camps, how many potentially great fights might we miss out on if teammates keep refusing to fight each other? In this dispute between Jackson and White, I think Jackson is correct that the fighters won't give in. But I hope White can prove me wrong.
Do you side with Dana White or Greg Jackson? Tell me on Twitter @MichaelDavSmith.
Comments (Page 1 of 1)
these guys are dumb for not fighting each other, the whole point is to fight the best to be the best.
Unbelievable!
How many people pass on a promotion to VP cos they have to compete with their friend?
Either these guys aren't serious about being champions or they are too emotionally attached to each other.
If they dont want to do whatever it takes to be the best, perhaps they should rethink their career choice. And the UFC should rethink their employment. I dont want to see weak champions and undeserving contenders cos the best fighters refuse to fight each other.
Grow up boys.
Its about winning. In Nascar, some teams have multiple cars, but they ALL compete for the same trohpy. Lmao, could you imagine Damon not wanting to play during the Yanks series because he was a former Red Sox?
Whats next, swing coaches refusing to caddy because they train more than one golfer? Canadian hockey players refusing to play against other Canadian hockey players all because theyre...Canadian? and stuck on different teams?
It smells like collusion to me, and last i checked the fighters fight, and the Owner runs the show.
Guess we better cancel that Blue Jays/Orioles series...SAME division!
Roflmao...!!!!!!
Hilarious
so who gets to leave camp? someone needs to pack up and find a new team. what trainer wants their fighter to leave before a fight for another trainer to cash in? how would you hide your injuries from a camp member,(you usually fight hurt somewhere, and old injuries never feel that good).
theres a lot of problems for camp mambers to fight each other.
this is a tough one,
fighting is totally different than playing against someone.
does anyone really have a problem with the fact that we will never see the klitscho brothers fight each other.
so i don't really have a problem with friends agreeing not to fight each other. just so long as that agreement is truly mutual. we all know what happened with ortiz/liddel.
personally, if a friend of mine didn't want to fight me, i probably would say no prob.
alternatively, if my bestfriend said, let's find out who the better fighter is and let's make some money as well, again...no prob.
just remember fighting is different than arm wrestling or ping pong, your health is on the line.
i really think it should be case by case.
and then there is dana's point of view, i would hope that dana would exhaust all possible alternatives before giving them an ultimatium.
i mean i realize dana has a business to run.
But it creates a bottleneck when two fighters from the same camp are two of the best in their division. What happens when Silva wins a few more fights and the one that makes the most sense is fighting Machida for the LHW title? This is an individual sport and the fighters need to put their feelings aside and get it done. The ONLY way I can go along with them not fighting is if it was explicitly outlined in the fighters contract. If it were part of the negotiations ahead of time them thats fine and good because those were the terms they agreed to ahead of time. But, anything else is just being disrespectful to the fans and the sport. It's not like they still can't be friends afterwards. They aren't fighting to the death.
I don't have a problem with Jackson saying he won't be involved in it, either. But, as he said it's not his decision it's really up to Dana White and we know how thats going to work out. If he wants them to fight they will fight or he will go on a public crusade against them and ruin their careers. He is that kind of a guy.
I was watching the Red Sox & Yankees earlier and Sabathia had to pitch against Victor Martinez who was his former team mate and catcher in Cleveland. Do you think they had any problems with it? Of course not because they are professionals.
Johnny, its not that simple. When you decide to become a professional fighter, you need daily training. A guy like Jackson evualates your potential, then invests a lot of time and money in getting you trained. In return, when you get a fight, they (trainer) gets a percentage of your purse. fair enought, they made sure you had the skills to go compete. That usually means they had a top level JJ guy, a top level kickboxer/muay thai guy, a wrestler, a stength and conditiong coach, maybe a nutritionist, etc. in the gym - everyday - for you.
The trainer who has made this investment isnt real happy about bringing a guy along to a competive level only to let him go and pay another trainer for the big fight. This isnt just Jackson, but any good trainer. As a fighter if you have any sense of appreciate, you dont want to do that to your trainer.
Also, once you fight your good friend, the relationship is never the same. You have to ask yourself if you want the friendship or the fight. Theres plenty of fightss out there, you only get a couple of good friends.
I understand completely because I have been involved in martial arts my entire life and I train with two of my best friends, my brother and my uncle.
I also think you have some things misunderstood in this whole equation. First of all, Greg Jackson gets paid by the fighters for his services. It's not the other way around as Jackson isn't paying the fighters anything. For the most part the guys that train at Jacksons MMA don't train there for the entirety of their camp. They have their own personal camps where they live and they go to a place like Jacksons MMA as a portion of their preparation. Also, Jackson doesn't get a red cent from their purse after they win or lose the fight. You are confusing the role of a Promoter/Agent with the role of a trainer. It's just not how it works unless the trainer also works as the capacity of a agent/promoter on the behalf of the fighter. Jackson himself said on Inside MMA he gets paid the same if a fighter wins or looses and if a fighter is Rashad Evans, GSP or some young kid with two professional fights. He doesn't do it for the money although he makes a decent living. Why you think these big gyms do kids classes, aerobics, jujitsu etc ... it's not just professionals all the time.
The guys usually have a wrestling coach at one location, nutritionist at another location, strking coach at one, jujitsu at another etc it's not like one head master trainer gives them all the training in every aspect. It just doesn't work like that. Greg Jackson is the head trainer and at his facility they do striking and grappling and Jackson also develops a gameplan for the fighters, sits in the corner during the fight etc.
The trainers themselves don't have a say in the matter because at the end of the day it's up to the organization. As I said, if it's explicitly laid out ahead of time in negotiations then I'm OK with the fight not happening because those are the terms the fighter and Zuffa agreed to before hand.
This brings me back to my original point - I've been in martial arts my whole life and I train very closely with my friends and family. We have full contact sparring and sometimes things can get very very heated. But, at the end of the day whether or not I get a broken nose, black eye, wrenched back, broken jaw, broken arm etc doesn't take away from our relationships outside of class.
The bottom line for me is these guys are professional prize fighters. This is their job and it's what they signed up to do. It's not as if the friends are being made to fight simply because they are friends. If they don't want to fight people they are close with they should have picked a different profession. I'm not saying it's an easy situation for them but this is business and it has nothing to do with friendships.
johnny, you pay your trainer when you get your purse unless you've already had some high dollar fights and got the money in the bank. most fighters dont have the money. when you go to jackson's camp. the jj, wrestling, standup coachs are all there. 1/2 the time you may be living with the trainer. this isnt master joes down at the shopping mall.
as for all your broken stuff, i'd say learn some defense.
theres a difference between getting hurt in sparring and in a fight. When youre hurt in sparring, the action stops and you go take care of it. in a fight you look to cripple the guy when you got him hurt.
The previous two posts make a couple of solid arguments, but all points aside, its a business. The fact that the Klitschos wont fight each other is...bad for business. Sibling rivalry or love aside, these people dont run the show. Boxings a sham anyway, with weird rankings, and fighters retiring to duck other fighters.
Liddell/Ortiz was a semi-friendship, but the truth was sooner or later everyone wants to be a champion.
As for injuries in the same camp, well most sports have an injury report that gives away whos hurt, why theyre hurt, how healthy theyll be etc and so on, im sure if Greg Jackson has several people in camp, and theyre such good pals, an honorable settlement can come between who trains with who, and what is said on it. Kyle and Verdum trained with each other before, and were very familiar with each others tactics and gameplan, the fight wasnt any less exciting because of it.
The bottom line is that NONE of the fighters run the business, the owner does, and if Dana White, jerkoff or not decides hey, its in the best interests of the business? then i dont care if you were in the same kindergarten class, youre fighting each other. One more thing, more often than not, competitors who have the closest ties to each other provide the most exciting matches, look at the Williams sisters, its almost as if they NEED that level of competition to bring out their very best.
If the fighters don't want to fight each other than they have the freedom not to. Dana also has the freedom to cut them. It would be hard to fight somebody that is your friend. Sparring is one thing but to try to break a guys nose or arm would be hard to do if he is your friend. Evfen if they were willing to fight could they fight their best. Some can do it but I don't think it make them less of a man if they don't want to. The fighters understand fighting more than Dana so I wouldn't put them down for their decision. Dana, like many jerk-off bosses can cut them. We all know that isn't going to happen. He isn't going to cut Machida and Silva. He will find some way to offer one of them a large amount of money under the table to challenge the other and eventually cause their friendship to turn bitter. One of the guys is bound to trade friendship for money. Many MMA guys that are traditional martial artist understand the respect of it. I believe all martial arts are always taught to be used fully for self-defense and trying to break your friens arm or nose is probably not what they were taught.
Forcing two fighters of the same camp to fight eachother is over the top even for Dana White. I know everyone wants to see Machida & Silva square off; however, I don't think it will happen. As some have suggested; one fighter will have to pickup and leave his camp for a new one.
This is not the "World Wide Wrestling Federation." I don't think you will see most fighters turning on their training partners because of Dana White & money. If White pushes too hard he may push fighters away. Dana can't axe Machida or Silva; he would only be spiting himself.
Fair points indeed, but Dana White runs a fight organization. The purpose is to provide the very best fights possible, and while people may align in camps, or stables, the idea is competition.
No one is asking Silva and Machida to become blood enemies, but its very fair to assume that if that were indeed the best possible matchup for a title, then so be it. They should fight, and Dana may not cut them, but weve already seen how people view the Fedor situation, and im not sure either Machida or Silva would be willing to go back to what most deem the minor leagues. Again, the fighters do not run the promotion, such as players dont run the NHL, NBA, NFL, or any other major sports affiliate.
Weve seen countless fighters use absolute respect when saying they want to test themselves against the best, that they simply want to know if they are the best fighter in their class. For Machida and Silva to try and possibly duck that speaks greater volumes about their character than a simple friendship. No ones saying you cant be friends and still test each others meddle.
Ok! Look at boxing. The two top heavywieghts (last time I checked) were the Russian brothers. They both agreed not to fight eachother. Similiar situation here depending on the friendship between Machida & Silva.
Can you imagine Dana White releasing Machida and Silva; Evans and Jardine? They could then join Fedor and other top figters and create a strong organization thus creating more competition with the UFC. And that would just be the beginning! Great talent would be spread out even more and we know Dana would not allow his fighters to compete outside the UFC. The bottom line: The UFC talent pool would be decreased, not increased. Dana will have to be smart picking his battles on this one. Just my opinion!
Sorry Claytor for repeating the boxing analogy; I missed your previous comments.
I completely see your point about the cutting, but at the same time, i mean boxing is possibly the worst example, two guys holding different belts? Theres like 23 different HW title belts now..insanely fractured, really.
The UFC, unlike boxing, is in a fortunate position to know it is the premier brand among the like organizations out there, so by that context, someone refusing to fight would be seen as going to a lesser promotion. If he were in a position to make Silva and Machida fight each other, and they refused outright, he could very well cut one of them, the company is built on fighters long let go, long had issues with Dana, and some crawl back, such as Baroni.
Hes cut Newton, Henderson, Wanderlei, Miletich, Ortiz, the list goes on. Some carved out a very solid career in PRIDE, which was a solid organization in its own right with the fighter talent, but they eventually wound up back with the premier brand.
Silva was seen as a decent fighter with an ok record before the UFC, Whites hype machine turned him into a god. Trust me, the power of an organizations whims can speak volumes over a fighters wishes.
In response to the article, arguments can be made for both sides. On the con side, it sounds ridiculous. You get in this sport to be the best athlete in it, and to be tested against the best. Every other sport with some form of physical contact has friends in it whom compete against each other. They may slam, bang, and lump up their friends, but afterwards there's the handshake and congratulatory hug that shows the comradery is still there. Why should MMA be any different? This argument, however, is mainly for the fans that want to see a particular fight and not going to be able to. The pro side of it is pretty simple. When you have the respect and friendship of another fighter, laying your hands on him as if he owed you money, or just disrespected your wife isn't an easy thing to do, especially when the person didn't do any of those things. Meaning, how can I beat down my friend and knock him out or submit him, and we still feel comfortable about our friendship?!? I don't think that's an easy thing to do. Even for a sizeable pay check. Bottomline, who gets the most consideration? The fans or the fighters who put their bodies on the line? Only the future will answer that question.
Fighters fight! Am I wrong?
I see no reason that friends shouldn't be able to fight one another. Fighters fight for the fans & the sport, right?
Rampage, Forrest, Wanderlei ... these guys would fight their own mother over a T-bone steak.