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The above video represents the strongest argument I've seen yet from supporters of UFC lightweight champion BJ Penn that UFC welterweight champion Georges St Pierre cheated to win their main event fight at UFC 94.
The video, which was apparently commissioned by Penn himself, suggests that St. Pierre cheated not just by having Vaseline rubbed on his body, but also by excessively grabbing Penn's shorts in the first round and by hitting Penn in the back of the head in the fourth round. The video also features quotes from various people in the MMA world, including former GSP opponents who have said he felt greasy.
If all you knew about the fight was what you saw in the video, you'd think what you saw is incredibly damaging. But, of course, we all know more than what we saw in the video, and we all know this video splices together certain clips to make them appear more ominous than they are.
I've talked to a lot of people in the MMA community about the GSP greasing allegations, and my opinion really hasn't changed since I first wrote about this two and a half weeks ago:
1. Vaseline is definitely not the reason St. Pierre beat Penn.
2. Vaseline on the body is definitely against the rules, and if one of his trainers intentionally broke the rules, there should be consequences.
But the fact that my opinion really hasn't changed on this story in two and a half weeks tells me there isn't a lot more to be said about this. I posted the above video because I think it's worth watching, but I hope we'll be done talking about this soon.
UFC 94 Photos
B.J. Penn takes left from Georges St. Pierre during their UFC welterweight mixed martial art title bout Saturday, Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas. St. Pierre won by TKO. (AP Photo/Eric Jamison)
Eric Jamison, AP
B.J. Penn, left, punches Georges St. Pierre during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
UFC
Georges St. Pierre, right, punches B.J. Penn during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
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Georges St. Pierre charges B.J. Penn during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
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B.J. Penn and Georges St. Pierre battle during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
UFC
B.J. Penn tries to fend off Georges St. Pierre during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
UFC
Georges St. Pierre, right, tries to punch B.J. Penn during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
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Georges St. Pierre catches the leg of B.J. Penn during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
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Georges St. Pierre battles B.J. Penn during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
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Georges St. Pierre elbows B.J. Penn during their match at UFC 94 on Jan. 31, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
UFC
Comments (Page 1 of 5)
MDS, the following quote from you is maddening. "But the fact that my opinion really hasn't changed on this story in two and a half weeks tells me there isn't a lot more to be said about this". Does that even make sense? You posted this late at night... maybe you should get some sleep and rethink.
BJ's main weapon was stolen from him with the vaseline. It's so obvious. A total outrage.
But since your opinion hasn't changed about it I guess there's nothing more to be said. Let me guess, you were born in Canada?
One's birthplace does not necessarily determine the weight of their commentary.
The fact is that Vaseline is used before the fighters get into the ring by parties that have no vested interest in the outcome of the match.
In close combat, there is the chance that it will play a role in how effective the fighters are able to execute their game plan.
GSP clearly executed. Was it because of additional "greasing up?" There is little indisputable evidence of that.
The same Vaseline applied to each fighter's face and brow, pre-match, could have equally undermined either combtant.
What is not mentioned is that GSP began to dominate prior to alleged bad acts, and then continued throughout the match.
You neither have to be from Canada, nor the U.S. to see this, and be unchanged in prior statements.
he was winning in the beginning round and the only rubbed the shoulders bj get a life u lose or do what ur name says gsp has lost to its not cuz he had vaseline its cuz he had a better match go back to ur normal weight the other fights say that cuz maybe they lost and they want 2 say reasons for their l but its going to get greasy i mean sweat it happens
The real question here is whether or not GSP was complicit. Based upon the views of former opponents there seems to be a theme developing. "Cheating" is a big word, one that ought not to be thrown around lightly but a "pattern" of behavior tends to make a compelling case. When the stakes are so high, when so much money is in play (including money bet by fans)the commission needs to make this a priority. Is grease on the body of an MMA combatant akin to plaster of paris in a boxing glove? In my view, if there was grease on GSP's back, then BJP was in mortal danger and the cheating becomes, for all intents and purposes, criminal activity.
criminal , dude get real
Agreed, this would be bad enough if it was simply a one time occurrence, but to have repeatedly broken the rules... The hitting in the back of the head and the shorts can always be chalked up to mistakes made when your fighting your hardest, but to grease up not only before a fight, but to be brazen enough to do it in between each round?
This is a guy half the young men across America look up to, and to think of him making it to the top cheating the whole way makes me sick.
The sad thing is he is clearly skilled enough to not need to cheat, that simply shows his true character.
Kick him out, cheaters should be dealt with most severely. Making an example of such a famous champion will set the standard of Zero tolerance, and sure as hell make anyone else looking for ways to cheat think twice.
(sad thing is one of his coaches will likely get the can and he'll get off with nothing)
I got hometown feelings for sure on this story. I do think something improper happenned but I dont think it was intentional.
I got a question for Matt hughes who said he felt grease of course in the two fights he lost.
GSP vs Hughes II the entire secound round was standing up until Matt got Ko. Maybe thats when he started feeling the grease.
GSP vs hughes III. You can see Greg Jackson tell mazagati that st-pierre has too much vaseline. Is own trainer calls him out. Even hughes sees it. But of course super ref Mazagatti does nothing about it. Now should we blame GSP or Hu8ghes for not pushing mazagatti to wipe it off
Like I say, there was greasing and I do see why BJ is mad but in this entire story, Hughes jumping in just seems like he has other motives. Plus he always gave me the feeling of disliking GSP for whatever reason.
Now with all this said BJ as nothing to stand on legally. Greasing is morally incorect yes. But legally GSP's team did not do anything bad and that is why they are not getting suspended the rule book as nothing in it to penalyse them
This video the guy explains the rules
http://www.mmanouvelles.com/2009/02/reportage-nbc-ufc-94.html
Grease can play a factor in the "stand up" also , when clinching or grabing someone for a take down and you can't a good hold of them. Cause there slippery. That's cheating !!! you must not know the sport that well.. The rules say you can't do it , plane an simple !!!! its cheating !!!!
Again morally greasing is wrong
But plain in simple the nevada state athlertic commission as nothing in it to bring these guys to court
so plain and simple thats why we are not heAring penaltys
and plain and simple thats why dana not talking about it cuz he know that plain and simply he cant do nothing
quite plain and simple
but again I do agree its moraly wrong and am quite plain and simply happy there will be new rules
When you hear the president of the UFC saying that "Georges is in trouble, they were putting vaseline all over his back" you know this needs to be dealt with ... it would be in Dana's best interest to not mention it at all, but the infraction is so obvious and deliberate that even he couldn't overlook it!
I didn't know that the foul was so blatant until I watched this video. Even Chuck Liddell and Frank Mir (both current or former champions) are both pointing out the obvious foul.
Plato said ... "The real question here is whether or not GSP was complicit." That only matters to whether or not GSP is to be penalized. Either way the foul is real, and the fight should be DECLARED A NO CONTEST!
Greasing is morally wrong I agree 100%, but the nevada athletic commission as nothing in it so I really doubt anybody will get any penalty.
They would go in court to contest and probably win
http://www.mmanouvelles.com/2009/02/reportage-nbc-ufc-94.html
Now this story will lead to new rules and better the sport.
This article and video is ridiculous. Alex, you clearly don't anything about this sport.....Frederick is right.
I train in BJJ, and the amount of Vaseline you would have to put on your back to stop a guy of BJ Penn's skills from putting GSP in a triangle or arm bar would have to be half of a jar. Guys of this caliber of fighter do not get caught in basic BJJ submission holds. Unfortunately, in every single fight, fighters get punched in the back of the head. Jon Jones just had a huge illegal elbow to the back of Stephan Bonnar's head, and the ref missed it.....I suppose he was cheating as well?
Ask all of the guys who have fought GSP of whether Vaseline makes him one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world. Ask Jon Fitch......undefeated for 6 years, dominated by GSP in every aspect of the fight.....he must have had Vaseline on his gloves to make his strikes quicker......
Everyone knows that Matt Hughes is notoriously the biggest A-hole in the UFC. He is a very non respected guy in the locker room because he thinks he's the greatest gift to the UFC, but his time is long passed......(see Thiago Alves domination of Hughes) GSP vs Thiago Alves, winner? GSP, no question. It is his time......
Saying that "Vaseline is definitely not the reason St. Pierre beat Penn" is a bold statement, but we will never know if that is true because GSP's corner cheated.
Saying that "Guys of this caliber of fighter do not get caught in basic BJJ submission holds" is a bold statement considering that GSP has already been submitted by Hughes who has no-where-near the level of Jiu-Jitsu as BJ (see BJ choking out Hughes).
I've said this before ... If the only difference was that BJ could've been able to control GSP better and avoid damage and go on to lose a decision, the fight should still be a no contest. Because the foul effected the outcome of the fight.
Then again, it's also possible that BJ could have used the high guard to get GSP in a omoplata, take his back, trap the arm with his leg(as he does so well), and choke him out.
Foul play kept us from seeing the true outcome of the fight!
Well said. Thank you.
cry some more bj nuthuggers
This was a championship match between weight divisions. A little cheating during a championship match should do more than just discredit the results. This should be something that drops the hammer, otherwise the consequences for cheating are much less than the benefits. For the amount of work Dana went into getting the boxing comission to support the UFC in the states, he should take things like this more seriously.
Very very well said. with all this discussion from fighters, analysts, fans and even Dana, I believe the true point is being missed. To retain the integrity of the UFC and the true spirit of this sport from a fans standpoint, issues like this in any fight let alone one with this magnitude should be addressed real time. Eliminate the opportunity for any fighter, trainer or spectator to CRY "cheat". Put this responsibility in the hands of the ref. If anyone affiliated with the UFC allows this in anyway to mark the rep of GSP the erosion of this organization has already begun. For me that will be a sad day.
BJ Penn and all the others who have made this claim have every right to be pissed off. It would be different if only one person is calling foul, but this is a reoccurring theme. They might do that in Canada, but we don't do it here in the states.
The bottom line is.Bj penn is a big mouth CRY BABY.
He had to know, I fought for years and you know what someone is rubbing on you. He should be stripped of any title. Too many compalints and he has brought dishonor to a great sport.